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MXM
New Member
USA
30 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Nov 2009 : 20:27:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Pelletier
Finally of that 1000$ you paid, the reseller did make more money that Martin does... so maybe he should be the one doing something for you ;-)
Well once again what about a trade in system for those of us that already own LJ1's or LJ2's. If We could buy the upgrade directly from Martin this would cut out the middle man (On This Item ONLY) so it would save the end user money. This might be a way for Martin as a company to maintain it's profit margin while still providing an end user product solution. Many software companies offer upgrades for a discounted price.
And Martin as a company can offer the traded in units as a refurbished product to those who are willing to pay for a legacy product. There is still a market (Just watch ebay) for LJ2 units. Just my thoughts. |
Michael Taylor
"DJ MXM"
MXM Productions
South Carolina, USA
"Entertainment To Startle Your Senses" |
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Jumpin_Jeff
Average Member
USA
378 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2009 : 01:41:03
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Paul,
You have been very helpful to me in the past, and that was greatly appriciated, but I must say, you guys are not doing your customers any justice with this situation.
If that's how you want to do business, that's fine, but I suspect that you're going to lose alot of business because of it.
So with fewer customers, does that justify raising prices to compensate for those lost? |
Jeff Main |
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danktle
Starting Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2009 : 03:27:02
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quote:
This weekend we released the Maxxyz software that runs on Win7 32-bit and 64-bit. It works with the Universal USB DMX box....
I saw this on the main site as I was looking for hope for a 64-bit driver, and was wondering that. I had never seen the Maxxyz PC version available before. So it sounds like LJ may be getting phased out? It makes sense to have your control schemes to be concurrent across several controllers, so I wouldn't blame you guys. I will download Maxxyz PC and play around with it awhile. Looks interesting, but Maxxyz boards are rare in my neck of the woods.
I understand that Martin really has only so many resources to devote to software since you're a lighting company first and foremost. But dudes, don't be ashamed to ask for some help with writing a 64-bit driver for the old dongles. There are many of us willing to help create, compile and test a driver, and we're only talking about a driver. Not the source code for LJ itself!
The REAL reason there's no 64-bit driver yet for the old dongles:
http://forums.highend.com/showthread.php?t=7020
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Kris VH
Moderator
Belgium
1405 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2009 : 09:43:48
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quote:
Originally posted by danktle
... So it sounds like LJ may be getting phased out?...
LJ will NOT be phased out!...  |
Kris Van Hullebusch
Stage Technology
kris@stagetechnology.be |
Edited by - Kris VH on 05 Nov 2009 09:44:27 |
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DJ Antoon
Junior Member
Netherlands
120 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2009 : 11:40:25
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I feel the same pain.
I'm just a little one man mobile DJ.
I own an old ISA Lightjockey card, I wasn't aware that once in the past I could upgrade, so money gone. It is still in an old PC and I used it till a year ago.
I did buy a newer style USB LJ2 dongle and as it seems now I'm not be able to use it on a new laptop (with win7) I'm about to buy.
At the other end I have a day time job as a PCB CAD layout designer. Untill a year ago we did use a dongle attached to the parallel printer port. As I was shifting to a laptop, I needed to upgrade to a USB dongle for cadstar. No problem, my company paid about 100 euro for a trade in and I was good to go. I even got the USB dongle first and when it worked, I could return the old parallel one.
I can imagine 60 euro a bit low for replacement, I could really live with the double amount of money. Maybe different offers depending of the age of the trade in interface?
But hey martin is the one to decide so please come with a fair offer. There's a lot possible between 60 and 900 euro...
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truth
Junior Member
USA
168 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2009 : 15:51:57
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| For the record, this last week I got the recangular LJ dongle (before the LJ2 I think) to work on a Vista Basic based laptop computer. Also, at another club I a Vista Home Premium computer is working with the LJ2. But I don't know if they will work on a 64 bit system when the new drivers come out. ??? |
"The task is arduous but every effort brings strength and joy" Raghavan Iyer. |
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MPJ-A
Average Member
Japan
472 Posts |
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Paul Pelletier
Administrator
Canada
7202 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2009 : 17:31:34
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This is an avenue we have been exploring. I personally in favor of such system. But we have one issue, we need to have a system in place to received and process these returns and once approved as genuine old LJ hardware send a new device.
And of course invoice customer directly something we never do.
Such system would have to work directly from the HQ in Denmark. But we don't have such facility right now. I did not give up on the idea. But don’t know if we can make this happening easily.
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Commercial Product Manager - Controllers
Martin Professional A/S
paul.pelletier@martin.dk
For controller questions and support email controllersupport@martin.dk |
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DJ Antoon
Junior Member
Netherlands
120 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2009 : 21:15:09
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And you need enough stock of interfaces.
If lighthouse can do it, why not at Martin?
Maybe it is a good thing, not letting the whole world known at the same day, you can replace it. Otherwise it could get busy. So please start at this forum first.  |
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traxman25
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2009 : 23:31:26
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Well as a new LJ customer and user I think I'll have to post a few comments. I can say that I have read parts of past posts complaining about how archaic LJ already is, and this only further fuels the fire.
Too add a bit of qualification before I even begin to add any thought to the thread, on the side I work for a small software company as a product development consultant, and their only outside beta tester. I am good friends with the owner of the company and we have discussions about this topic a lot. Also I own a small manufacturing and have to work with pricing on almost a daily basis.
quote:
Originally posted by Matthias Hinrichs
quote:
Originally posted by Jumpin_Jeff
http://www.enttec.com/index.php?main_menu=Products&pn=70303&show=description&name=opendmxusb
Jeff,
I don't know if you try to be funny but this isn't really a basis for a serious discussion. 60 Dollars does not cover the cost of our hardware, packaging, shipping and customs for the Universal USB DMX. The 3 neutrik adapters shipped with the box cost about $10 EACH by themselves.
http://www.markertek.com/Cables-Connectors-Adapters/DMX-Connectors-Adapters/Neutrik-USA-Inc/NA3F5M.xhtml
I was hoping you can give me a realistic number what you would find acceptable, but this is not going to work.
If you upgrade an iphone through ATT in the US you have to get a contract for 2 years and then you get the iphone for 50% discount from the retail price.
This is unfortunate, I was really expecting a professional discussion with you.
One problem with this, why do the three converter connectors even matter for an upgrade? It's great that they are included in a new unit, but they don't need to be included in a box upgrade. There is no reason a 2 universe box couldn't be offered as an upgrade for $120. I have a feeling you know you could actually offer the box for $60, and that's why you are talking about the adapters, not the box itself. You know the hardware in that box does not cost you nearly that much and customers paid for the service and support with the original purchase.
quote:
Originally posted by Matthias Hinrichs
I was exactly talking about a trade in, but at a price that makes sense and allows us to continue to give support, libraries etc.
Any manufacturer in consumer electronics wouldn't even bother to discuss this. Otherwise I would keep trading in my HD Plasma screen every year and my wireless router is G and not N, so I wan't a new one for the cost of components.
It doesn't make business sense I'm afraid.
Please be aware that this discussion does not mean that we will offer a trade in program. Many factors have to be considered before we can decide for or against it.
However I find the opionion of the users important so we can weigh the pros and cons of this.
There's a big difference between a Plasma TV, a wireless G router, and software/ software driven hardware keeping up with the times. I don't have a Plasma TV, but my TV still connects to cable television just fine, and still displays DVD's from my Blu-Ray DVD player just fine. As nice as a brand new high end LG, nope, but it still works. My brand new laptop still works on a wireless B and G system, it doesn't require a wireless N network to operate. However there is a chance that my new 32 bit Windows 7 laptop won't run LJ, and that will be a BIG problem for me! I didn't spend $1300 on Oct. 13th to have it not work on my new laptop 3 weeks later. BTW I didn't plan on getting a new laptop, my 6 yr old Windows XP machine died 1.5 weeks ago.
Understand the problem and the difference here? We're not talking upgrade to the latest and greatest just because here, we're talking about upgrades so your product will even be useful to people who not only earn their living with it but also spent a large sum of their hard earned money on said product.
quote:
Originally posted by danktle
..... As I said earlier, prices aside, their product currently does one thing that yours doesn't: Operate on a 64-bit platform. Seeing as how it is becoming more and more difficult to purchase an up-to-date CPU that operates on a 32-bit OS, the answer shouldn't be: "Buy an old or slightly inferior computer. LJ works fine on those!"
....
I'm not sure where you get that it is difficult at all to get a 32 bit system. I will stand up from Martin and say this. 32 bit is still the standard, you have to UPGRADE to a 64 bit system. Furthermore, LJ is by far NOT in the minority of products that do not support a 64 bit system. I'm not saying that is right, but it is why I did not get a 64 bit OS.
In conclusion it is impervious for Martin to support LJ and LJ's customers by keeping up with the times. LJ is one of the most expensive PC systems around, and I for one expect to be able to use it until DMX is replaced with some other communication protocol. Your customers never know when they my be absolutely required to upgrade computers, and then be stuck holding a very expensive paper weight. I have not installed LJ on my Windows 7 machine yet, I will report back once I do.
Paul, you have your supply chain down already, why can't that be meshed into the current supply chain? After all, they are getting paid to make sales as well, and with that commission comes responsibility for service and support as well. |
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Paul Pelletier
Administrator
Canada
7202 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2009 : 02:20:04
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Thanks for your feedback TraxMan, first, if you have a new the Universal DMX box you are OK as we will support Win7 32bit for Universal Box. For Win 7 64 Bit I don't want to say anything yet as I have yet to see it working.
Your comparison wuth TV does not work well, yes if you don't have a HDTV you cable still work, but you can't watch in HD, so this is the same here, older hardware still work in the paramters (OS) it was designed for.
Back to the upgrade, all I can say is if only it was that simple as you think it is...
For pricing well as nothing is decided yet, so the price has been fix yet but don't expect to be as low as you mention, and don't slam me here I'm just being realistic.
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Commercial Product Manager - Controllers
Martin Professional A/S
paul.pelletier@martin.dk
For controller questions and support email controllersupport@martin.dk |
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traxman25
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2009 : 18:17:24
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Paul,
Thank you for the feed back on the new Universal box. That eases my concerns some. It will be a few days before I can try LJ on the new computer. I will report back to this thread once I have tested it out.
And yes supply chain for your world, and mine are two different things. Your supply chain is much larger and international. It could be possible to try to get one or two suppliers in your larger markets to act as companies sort of like Light House for you to handle the returns. Having even a select few of your retailers handle the transaction will certainly simplify the process for both consumers and Martin as a company. |
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mzagarn
Average Member
Melbourne Australia
425 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2009 : 05:55:42
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| I have kept out of the thread for long enough. I have a light jockey usb 2 and just bought a new universal dongle. I would love to upgrade my older unit so I have 2. But I do we where martin are coming from. I also see why you are all upset. I know with my hog dmx dongle there was a $300 usd upgrade which had to be done so that the hog dmx out would work with hog 3. They made it happen. I don’t think that martin should do it direct but do it with their distribution network. Here in Australia it is done by a company showtech and they were looking at selling my old dongle into a night club where it wouldn’t be an issue that it is single universe (might have been an issue if they weren’t running XP). It would be great if I could send them my old unit to them and they test it and I send a extra $$$ or whatever and I get the newer unit. Then once a month they send it to Martin HQ and they get paid back accordingly. I am not saying I want the upgrade for free and no one should be saying that but there should be a middle ground. As for the argument about the plasma upgrade all you are paying for it the hardware. With light jockey as you all put you are paying for the software rights, service and the updates. As I have seen happening for the visualiser to work you have to upgrade to msd 5. The deal you have for that is great. I have a full msd 5 for so the visualiser issue isn’t going to be an issue for me but if you read between the lines it’s going to be an issue for you all. If you look on the msd http://www.martin.com/fORUM/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18594 He is having the same issue with a product that isn’t going to be supported. I paid for the upgrade because I could we what they were doing and it had to be done. I am currently unhappy with the service with msd subscription and there hasn’t been many advances just bug fixes. But that is my issue I still paid my update subscription the other day. So all of you who want something for nothing suck it up. Martin pull your finger out and help find a solution. Your one of the biggest lighting companies in the world and as you put it there isn’t that many in our industry. |
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traxman25
Starting Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2009 : 05:46:34
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LJ IS working on my new Windows 7 laptop. However the Off Line Visualizer does not work. It is missing a DLL, and I read in another thread that the OLV will not be updated to work on Vista or 7. Is that still the case?
Also, you should update your LJ installer to include the new Drivers for the Universal box and Vista/7. |
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kevinw30
Average Member
USA
326 Posts |
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Paul Pelletier
Administrator
Canada
7202 Posts |
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DJ Antoon
Junior Member
Netherlands
120 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 08:17:06
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No news about the possibility for a trade in programm?
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bobbie4
Starting Member
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 10:05:14
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| Time for Linux perhaps? |
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Paul Pelletier
Administrator
Canada
7202 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2009 : 12:43:59
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"No news about the possibility for a trade in programm?"
Still under serious consideration... that's all I can say for now...
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Commercial Product Manager - Controllers
Martin Professional A/S
paul.pelletier@martin.dk
For controller questions and support email controllersupport@martin.dk |
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ishowcebu
Senior Member
Philippines
635 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2009 : 02:57:06
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As long as the pcs I have works, my the PCI cards will have to stay. Having my PC to break down in an important event, then my company's name is at stake. I always keep a back up unit, just in case. And having a good ordinary DMX board also helped me survive one of my small events.
I will not go for the new dongle for I am comfortable with what I have today. If ever I will be needing to up grade, I will go for a desk not for the reason that LJ is not supported much or the like, but because my needs have grown. My $1000.00 investment with LJ2, after 4 years, has done so much for my company's success. And I hate to part ways with the software that truly is user friendly and very powerful for the price I paid for. |
Fil
www.ishowcebu.com
there's always a solution. |
Edited by - ishowcebu on 20 Dec 2009 03:01:19 |
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Jumpin_Jeff
Average Member
USA
378 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2010 : 13:41:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Jumpin_Jeff
Anyone want a LJ2 dongle? Works great with Windows XP!
As an update, I've sold my LJ2 dongle.
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Jeff Main |
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jakobjan
Average Member
Netherlands
201 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2010 : 18:54:02
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Hmmm i might be putting a little oil on a slumbering fire :D
But 2003 is 7 years ago.. usually pc hardware has tax a life expectancy of 3 to 5 years.
As a beta tester I was one of the first who got an ISA Club card this was round about 1999-2000 this card has recently died. But the life of this card was way more than it was designed for.
You cannot expect a manufacuror to support his hardware for 20 years with new drivers when techniques are advancing.. LJ was first designed for win95/98 and early XP but Vista and Windows 7 where no where in the line of development.
Maybe you "Jeff" should ask yourself why should you upgrade to windows 7 instead of sticking to XP maybe Microsoft should pay your new hardware because they keep on developing new OS's where no one is asking for.
I do not believe Enttec wil be supporting it's hardware in 10 years from now either.
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Without light a concert would be radio. |
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Jumpin_Jeff
Average Member
USA
378 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2010 : 13:22:10
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I took care of the problem jakobjan! I upgraded OS to take advantage of new features in windows. This I do not regret. I recently sold off my LJ2 dongle becuase it no longer fills my needs. I am moving to OpenDMX hardware. I cannot wait around for support for a better Operating system.
You, may do whatever you choose friend. |
Jeff Main |
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jakobjan
Average Member
Netherlands
201 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2010 : 15:39:50
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Sorry to read this Jeff. You have been around for some time now, and it is a shame to see someone make this choice. But it's your choice to make only.
We'll wait and see what Martin comes up with in de forthcoming time..
God speed my friend. and good luck with openDMX |
Without light a concert would be radio. |
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sing
New Member
26 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2010 : 09:18:52
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How can I use lightJocky2.91 with Universal USB/DMX Interface in window7 home?
My PC can find the Universal USB/DMX Interface but the lightJocky2.91 hardware can't find |
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Topic |
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Lightjockey on Windows 7
